Thanks for sharing that! I think a lot of people feel time running out as they age. That’s our reality. I love the image of time moving through us. So much of Four Thousand Weeks is about letting go of the hubris we feel around time, as though there’s anything we could actually do to manage time.
I've been meaning to pick this book back up. Perhaps it is no accident that this came across my feed today.
I love how you are making this into a community endeavor. Finding individual creative flow while holding space for collective accountability/community sharing.
The first paragraph of this essay is me. All me. I get super jazzed for something and then expect to leapfrog right to the grand finale. (SIGH). I'm learning to let things marinate, which isn't my nature typically.
I'm so glad it resonated! It's all me too! I think everyone struggles with this, especially if you're trying to do something creative in a world that doesn't value creativity or help us make space for it.
I love Burkeman's book, and I especially struggle with the idea that things take as long as they take. I'm constantly underestimating how long something will take me and then getting stressed when it takes longer.
Copying our convo over here too, so others can join in if they want...
HEIDI: Unfortunately there’s no way to know exactly how long something will take until you try it, and unless you’re a robot, every task is different, because even if you appear to be the same person doing the same task the circumstances are always different. I think it’s extra tough because we are under constant pressure to be efficient with our time, so if something takes longer than expected, which it usually does, we feel like we did something wrong. Then we waste more time beating ourselves up! 🙃
DACY: So true! How do you handle it? Should we overestimate?
HEIDI: On a practical level, I think this is probably a problem with several different solutions. I know some people double their estimates or add buffer time. That probably helps some, especially if you’re trying something new (like writing a book or having a baby) and have no frame of reference for how long it will take. I’m personally a “precrastinator,” which means I tend to rush to get things done, so I don’t have to worry about being late. (That comes with its own problems!!!)
Ideally I think we would try to normalize “feeling behind.” This probably feels a little out of nowhere, but I found AOC’s stories on Instagram when she first became a senator really informative. I think it’s been several years since she posted about the workload, but she reached the same conclusion that Burkeman reaches. The work will never be done. Becoming a senator made that SO clear to her. She will never reply to every email. Or go to every event. Or be on top of every issue. The magnitude of the job forced her to acknowledge that. It sounded like a lot of her first couple years in office were spent navigating that truth and figuring out how to handle the overwhelm. I guess I feel like if she can normalize things taking longer than expected/not getting to everything/feeling overwhelmed, it might help all of us to normalize that a bit more.
Sometimes we’re actually impatient to get things done, but sometimes we’re just responding to the expectations and pressures to get things done, and those probably require two different approaches.
This is very interesting Heidi! The concept I like most is Eigenzeit. Things take as long as they take. Not sure if the following info is relevant, actually, but here goes. I'm in a period of so many projects. Well, right now I have 3 big ones and 1 small (2 of the 4 are paid, 2 are personal creative work). Tomorrow I add another big one (paid). Next week I deliver the small one and add 2 more big ones (paid). I am under a bit of self-imposed pressure to also get on the runway (that is, do the prep work) for another big one that will run May-July (paid -- it's an online course). All of them are mental/computer work vs. idk interpretive dancing.
I can't ditch either of the personal creative projects because they are collaborations and I have committed to doing them. I'm happy that they're going to be around for a while (one is a podcast, one's a book). Eigenzeit applies to both.
The paid projects have deadlines. The personal creative ones don't have deadlines but they have blocks of time dedicated to them (as in, on Fridays we tape the podcast, create content, etc.); Tu-We-Thu I do 1-2 hours on the book. I am already very familiar with the idea that the work is never done. However, I never seem to learn how to manage it better.
I just spent an hour blocking my calendar for Mar, Apr, and May and the 2 personal projects are on there, plus the paid projects. But things like filing taxes aren't on there, nor are overseas visitors April 9-25, emails at any point of any day, 2 large grant applications with April deadlines, personal emergencies (my mom is in hospice so there will be those), or, haha, holidays.
These words caught my eye: “so long as you continue to respond to impossible demands on your time by trying to persuade yourself that you might one day find some way to do the impossible, you’re implicitly collaborating with those demands.”
I'm definitely collaborating with the demands on my time. They are not from anyone outside of me. They're from the me who wants my mortgage paid off and my kids' university tuition in the bank. Also the me who enjoys the work i do for money and feels like time is running out to pay for future me in old age. And the me who likes writing and podcasting and finds both really interesting.
If I had no need to pay the bills, I think the 2 personal projects would expand to fill my time and also I would have more days off to just mess around. Not sure if the projects would be any better if they expanded into the vacant space, but they'd probably be way more organized and would develop faster, especially the book.
I am curious about how all of this meshes for you, no pressure to respond--it's a lot. On the podcast we are going to talk about chronotype tomorrow (taping it, not airing it), and your post seems related, I'm just not sure how. Chronotype as in how it relates to creative work or creative production. (We include creative-adjacent work for money in our purview.)
I find eigenzeit to be an interesting concept, but a little aspirational. When our son was having surgery and we asked how long it would take, the doctor said "it takes as long as it takes," which was a frustrating answer to hear, but I also admired his zen determination.
I've tried time blocking, but it has always felt like more pressure than less for me. I don't like someone telling me what to do, even if it's my past self! Kind of like I don't want my watch to tell me if I should take more steps that day. To some extent I might time block my days by telling myself "I have an hour to write. Whatever isn't done in an hour will be there tomorrow." But maybe that's just monotasking, not time blocking!
I know it's not realistic, but I can't help thinking about all these things without wondering what life would be like if we didn't have to worry about money. It doesn't take thinking about it for very long to realize SO much of the pressure we feel is driven by our need to survive/make money.
I'm intrigued by your note about not being sure if the projects would be any better if they expanded into the vacant time. I agree there's probably some benefit to the urgency and creative restrictions that come with deadlines. On a spiritual level, I think it helps to trust that things are happening in the right time and unfolding in the right way, even if it doesn't feel like it in the moment. Whether that's true or not, believing it helps me make peace with my limitations. But believing it is easier said than done!
Thank you for the meaty reply! Monotasking and time blocking--never thought of them as basically the same thing, but I think they are except for the scheduling aspect of time blocking. Totally agree about the pressure exerted by the need to survive / make money. I know a couple of creative types who have cut their costs to the bone to lessen that pressure...I feel like for me, it just adds the pressure of trying to spend as little as possible. Anyway, great topic and I'm going to subscribe.
That's amazing! Thank you so much for signing up. You have been such a source of inspiration and support for...10 years??? Thank you, Pat!!! I'm looking forward to philosophizing with you and fan girling about Oliver Burkeman with you.
I relate to Flow.... time isn't real. We don't move through time, time moves through us. All we have is now. I *try* to stay out of the future.
To answer a prompt... the only time pressure I deal with is the age I am ... working on that inherited narrative bias. 😊
Thanks for sharing that! I think a lot of people feel time running out as they age. That’s our reality. I love the image of time moving through us. So much of Four Thousand Weeks is about letting go of the hubris we feel around time, as though there’s anything we could actually do to manage time.
I've been meaning to pick this book back up. Perhaps it is no accident that this came across my feed today.
I love how you are making this into a community endeavor. Finding individual creative flow while holding space for collective accountability/community sharing.
The first paragraph of this essay is me. All me. I get super jazzed for something and then expect to leapfrog right to the grand finale. (SIGH). I'm learning to let things marinate, which isn't my nature typically.
Thanks for stirring this all up in me again.
I'm so glad it resonated! It's all me too! I think everyone struggles with this, especially if you're trying to do something creative in a world that doesn't value creativity or help us make space for it.
I love Burkeman's book, and I especially struggle with the idea that things take as long as they take. I'm constantly underestimating how long something will take me and then getting stressed when it takes longer.
Copying our convo over here too, so others can join in if they want...
HEIDI: Unfortunately there’s no way to know exactly how long something will take until you try it, and unless you’re a robot, every task is different, because even if you appear to be the same person doing the same task the circumstances are always different. I think it’s extra tough because we are under constant pressure to be efficient with our time, so if something takes longer than expected, which it usually does, we feel like we did something wrong. Then we waste more time beating ourselves up! 🙃
DACY: So true! How do you handle it? Should we overestimate?
HEIDI: On a practical level, I think this is probably a problem with several different solutions. I know some people double their estimates or add buffer time. That probably helps some, especially if you’re trying something new (like writing a book or having a baby) and have no frame of reference for how long it will take. I’m personally a “precrastinator,” which means I tend to rush to get things done, so I don’t have to worry about being late. (That comes with its own problems!!!)
Ideally I think we would try to normalize “feeling behind.” This probably feels a little out of nowhere, but I found AOC’s stories on Instagram when she first became a senator really informative. I think it’s been several years since she posted about the workload, but she reached the same conclusion that Burkeman reaches. The work will never be done. Becoming a senator made that SO clear to her. She will never reply to every email. Or go to every event. Or be on top of every issue. The magnitude of the job forced her to acknowledge that. It sounded like a lot of her first couple years in office were spent navigating that truth and figuring out how to handle the overwhelm. I guess I feel like if she can normalize things taking longer than expected/not getting to everything/feeling overwhelmed, it might help all of us to normalize that a bit more.
Sometimes we’re actually impatient to get things done, but sometimes we’re just responding to the expectations and pressures to get things done, and those probably require two different approaches.
Thanks for the AOC story....that is a good reminder to see the "always feeling behind" with a different attitude.
It’s so easy to feel behind with creative projects, but it’s all made up! So hard to remember in the moment though.
same here. Love the book. Struggle with the same aspect you are describing. Glad to not be alone with that.
Definitely not alone! I struggled with it just today!
This is very interesting Heidi! The concept I like most is Eigenzeit. Things take as long as they take. Not sure if the following info is relevant, actually, but here goes. I'm in a period of so many projects. Well, right now I have 3 big ones and 1 small (2 of the 4 are paid, 2 are personal creative work). Tomorrow I add another big one (paid). Next week I deliver the small one and add 2 more big ones (paid). I am under a bit of self-imposed pressure to also get on the runway (that is, do the prep work) for another big one that will run May-July (paid -- it's an online course). All of them are mental/computer work vs. idk interpretive dancing.
I can't ditch either of the personal creative projects because they are collaborations and I have committed to doing them. I'm happy that they're going to be around for a while (one is a podcast, one's a book). Eigenzeit applies to both.
The paid projects have deadlines. The personal creative ones don't have deadlines but they have blocks of time dedicated to them (as in, on Fridays we tape the podcast, create content, etc.); Tu-We-Thu I do 1-2 hours on the book. I am already very familiar with the idea that the work is never done. However, I never seem to learn how to manage it better.
I just spent an hour blocking my calendar for Mar, Apr, and May and the 2 personal projects are on there, plus the paid projects. But things like filing taxes aren't on there, nor are overseas visitors April 9-25, emails at any point of any day, 2 large grant applications with April deadlines, personal emergencies (my mom is in hospice so there will be those), or, haha, holidays.
These words caught my eye: “so long as you continue to respond to impossible demands on your time by trying to persuade yourself that you might one day find some way to do the impossible, you’re implicitly collaborating with those demands.”
I'm definitely collaborating with the demands on my time. They are not from anyone outside of me. They're from the me who wants my mortgage paid off and my kids' university tuition in the bank. Also the me who enjoys the work i do for money and feels like time is running out to pay for future me in old age. And the me who likes writing and podcasting and finds both really interesting.
If I had no need to pay the bills, I think the 2 personal projects would expand to fill my time and also I would have more days off to just mess around. Not sure if the projects would be any better if they expanded into the vacant space, but they'd probably be way more organized and would develop faster, especially the book.
I am curious about how all of this meshes for you, no pressure to respond--it's a lot. On the podcast we are going to talk about chronotype tomorrow (taping it, not airing it), and your post seems related, I'm just not sure how. Chronotype as in how it relates to creative work or creative production. (We include creative-adjacent work for money in our purview.)
I find eigenzeit to be an interesting concept, but a little aspirational. When our son was having surgery and we asked how long it would take, the doctor said "it takes as long as it takes," which was a frustrating answer to hear, but I also admired his zen determination.
I've tried time blocking, but it has always felt like more pressure than less for me. I don't like someone telling me what to do, even if it's my past self! Kind of like I don't want my watch to tell me if I should take more steps that day. To some extent I might time block my days by telling myself "I have an hour to write. Whatever isn't done in an hour will be there tomorrow." But maybe that's just monotasking, not time blocking!
I know it's not realistic, but I can't help thinking about all these things without wondering what life would be like if we didn't have to worry about money. It doesn't take thinking about it for very long to realize SO much of the pressure we feel is driven by our need to survive/make money.
I'm intrigued by your note about not being sure if the projects would be any better if they expanded into the vacant time. I agree there's probably some benefit to the urgency and creative restrictions that come with deadlines. On a spiritual level, I think it helps to trust that things are happening in the right time and unfolding in the right way, even if it doesn't feel like it in the moment. Whether that's true or not, believing it helps me make peace with my limitations. But believing it is easier said than done!
Thank you for the meaty reply! Monotasking and time blocking--never thought of them as basically the same thing, but I think they are except for the scheduling aspect of time blocking. Totally agree about the pressure exerted by the need to survive / make money. I know a couple of creative types who have cut their costs to the bone to lessen that pressure...I feel like for me, it just adds the pressure of trying to spend as little as possible. Anyway, great topic and I'm going to subscribe.
That's amazing! Thank you so much for signing up. You have been such a source of inspiration and support for...10 years??? Thank you, Pat!!! I'm looking forward to philosophizing with you and fan girling about Oliver Burkeman with you.